ivanforum

[Revenant]

Great work, but using code would make it much faster, but whatever

[Fatty]

I have numbers! I've actually been wanting to know about this for quite awhile. I have a good amount of data from wizard mode but I don't know what it means.

Basically what I did was I tried out every weapon in it's end-game state (socm'd and enchanted) and copied down the information on character attack and defense values (from the shift-8 menu in wizard mode). I have this big chart but I don't know what it means.

I'm guessing that "BD" is damage, "THV" is to-hit-value, "BV" is block value, and "BS" is block strength.... but what's "APC" and where oh where is the attack speed?

If someone knows this information or can figure it out then I can interpret the chart correctly, if not then I'll interpret it incorrectly some other time.

Also, does anyone have a mathematical understanding of how weapons train str / dex? This is very important in "no artificial limb" games (another thread?).

[Fatty]

^Really? I still find it odd that APC is the same for every weapon!

Do you think that I interpreted the other four values correctly? If so then I can mathematically give you the pro's and con's of all weapons!

[SquashMonster]

I went source diving to get some of the information last night. I think I was about a third of the way through writing a preliminary version of all the notes you'd need to properly explain the combat engine after a few hours of work.

The IVAN system is seriously mad crazy complex.

But here's some notes I have. I'm pretty sure I messed up when copying down some notes on something that was done with a bit shift, so please keep in mind that there may be a wrong number, and if there is, it'll be a multiple of two.

No, it won't be very organized.

The strength requirement of an item is:
1.25 * 10^-10 * Weight ^ 2 * Size ^ 2

The hit strength of a weapon is:
(Arm Strength) - (Strength Requirement)
If you're dual-wielding, use combined arm strength and half the strength requirement.

Weapon skill bonuses are equal to:
1000 + 50 * (Skill Level)

Any weapon or armor's THVBonus (To Hit Bonus) is:
Enchantment * 0.5

Move Ease is based on burden state:
OverLoaded = 50
Stressed = 50
Burdened = 75
Unburdened = 100
Anything Else = 666 (Yeah. Shouldn't actually happen.)

Your to-hit-value when unarmed is:
Dexterity * sqrt(2.5 * perception) * (Move Ease) * (Unarmed skill bonus) * (10 + Gauntlet's THV Bonus) / 5000000

Your to-hit-value when armed is:
If the hit strength of your weapon is 0 or less, 0
If your weapon's hit strength is less than 10 but over 0, pretend it was 10.
Base = 2 * 10 ^ -11 * (Weapon's hit strength) * (Weapon class skill bonus) * (Specific weapon skill bonus) * (Move Ease) * 10000 / (1000 + weapon weight + (enchantment / 2))
ThisToHit = dexterity * sqrt(2.5 * perception);
And your to-hit-value is ThisToHit * Base.
There are, however, special cases, if your other arm is usable.
If your other arm has no weapon, and the first arm's weapon is two handed and not a sheild:
Add (other arm's dexterity) * sqrt(2.5 * perception) to ThisToHit.
Then divide ThisToHit by two.
If your other arm does have a weapon, and neither weapon is a shield:
Divide ThisToHit by 1 + (500 * (Arm2's weapon weight)) / (1000 + (Arm1's weapon weight) / 2)

The blocking modifier of a weapon is:
Size * Roundness * 2.
Multiply by an additional two for shields.

Blocking value is:
ToHitValue * Block Modifier / 10000

The blocking capability of a weapon:
If you have no weapon or our weapon's hit strength is 0 or less, then 0.
If you're still here, pretend your weapon's hit strength was at least 10.
Blocking Capability is (hit strength) * (weapon's strength) * (weapon skill class bonus) * (specific weapon bonus) / 10000000

For each arm you block with:
BlockStrength = GetBlockCapability
BlockValue = GetBlockValue
if either of those are 0, do nothing and give up on this function

you'll block if:
RAND() % int(100 + WeaponToHitValue / BlockValue / (1 << BlocksSinceLastTurn) * (100 +

Success)) < 100)
if you don't, give up on this function
new damage is damage - blockstrength. Minimum is 0.
lose (10000 / Arm Strength) stamina
gain some strength based on the weight of the item you blocked with.
gain some dex based on some crazy crud I can't be bothered to figure out
(long DexExp = Weight ? Limit(75000L / Weight, 75L, 300L) : 300;)
if you're dual-weilding, do that same experience for both arms
receive some skill in your weapon based on relative strength of who you blocked
the item you blocked with recieves damage equal to the ORIGINAL damage before block

if what you blocked was an item (I THINK, could just be still existing)
it recieves damage equal to the difference between original and new damages
if your blocks since last turn isn't 16 yet, add one to that count.


Dodging attacks:
if the attacker can't be seen by the target, double ToHitValue
if the target can't be seen by the attacker, double DodgeValue
if the attacker is confused, multiply ToHitValue by 0.75
if the attacker is fainting, halve ToHitValue
if the attacker is exhausted, multiply ToHitValue by 0.75
if the target is fainting, halve DodgeValue
if the target is exhausted, multiply DodgeValue by 0.75

If it's going to be a critical, target won't dodge.
If it's a forced hit, target won't dodge.

Chance of dodge is:
RAND() % int(100 + ToHitValue / DodgeValue * (100 + Success)) < 100
A comment in the source says this means:
/* Effectively, the average chance to hit is 100% / (DV/THV + 1). */
Successfully dodging attacks trains agility and perception (twice as much agility)

Damage is boosted Success percent. (100 damage, 4 success = 104 damage).
Two thirds of the time, one more point is added to damage.
A critical hit adds an extra half to damage, then adds one more point.

!!! BodyPart = ChooseBodyPartToReceiveHit(ToHitValue, DodgeValue)

Only can block if it's not a critical, and it did damage, and this attack is blockable
If you're doing something, you won't block (I think that's what that line means.)

If you have something in your right hand, it'll try to block with it.
If there's still damage, you have something in your left, and (I think) there's still a

weapon to attack you with, you'll block with your left.



Someone else should feel free to try to organize that better. That might not be the entirety of the dodge function, by the way. I don't remember.
_________________
"Im angered that everyone is following my trend of quoting people. I should make that punishable" ~ unknown_entity

[PotatoEngineer]

Hm, that's interesting. So Rondol the Kobold can usually hit my vitals because he has a spectacular hit value? Does the ChooseBodyPartToReceiveHit function pick limbs if the hit/dodge ratio is low?
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Hm, I guess kicking landmines is bad.

[Fatty]

Here is the data I have from awhile back. I wielded every item in its endgame state with 30 str and 30 dex and copied down the "BD", "THV", "BV", and "BS" values from the shift-8 menu in wizard mode, which in this analysis I am assuming are "damage", "to-hit-value", "block value", and "block strength" respectively.

[Atomic]

Reviving for relavency.
_________________
"Also, I'm the only person I know capable of a pelvic pary and riposte." -- Squashmonster

I moderate in red.

[Elohssa]

I find myself stuck like glue to Saal'thu and Vermis because of the built-in abilities. How do others manage to have invisibility, fire-resistance, tele-control, and poly-control (the dead minimum, from my POV) with only the three ringcloak slots? With this duo, I've got a spare slot for infravision, or electricity resistance, or whatever I need. Without them, I'm dead meat.

I have experimented a bit with a mystic dark frog as a pet, but I WANT TO LIVE, and the frog can't keep up. There aren't enough blink dogs to keep tele-control up, and the gods are too random.

How do you guys manage it without Vermis and Saal'thu? Do you do without? I want to fool with other weapon groups, but nothing else provides this boost (that I know of)? Seerc (sp?) is awesome, and I suppose I COULD dual-wield'em with Vermis, and that would be ok, but the AS requirements are pretty high for my play style (AS 32 minimum). Likewise dual-whips, Mjolak, 2H swords, etc.
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Shaw's Principle: Build a system even a fool could use, and only a fool would want to use it.

[Z]

Revivals are bad.

If you meet a blink dog, wait and don't kill it, it will summon its kin. Kill them only when there are lots of them around you. Telecontrol obtained from eating should last for long (and if it ends, you can save some of them for later).

You could try to wield the staff of wondrous smells from time to time and spend some time in its blue vapour to gain good abilities.

ESP is harder to keep.
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3D mode, screenshots and my other IVAN stuff

[Atomic]

I usually just do without -- relying on the off chance of finding a specific artifact weapon is just too much for me. I pretty much always do with what I get, augmented by some polypiling and cloneing/mirroring of scrolls. As for the weapon choice I usually just go with the best weapon I find in UT1 (or first if I dont' find something awesome, like a +3 mithril battle axe to replace my runed leather whip).
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"Also, I'm the only person I know capable of a pelvic pary and riposte." -- Squashmonster

I moderate in red.

[Somagu]

Keep in mind revivals aren't INCREDIBLY bad if it actually has some usefull-ish info, and doesn't just say, "LMAO!!!!" in which case, it's bad, and the topic should be locked or ignored, immediatly. (sp)
_________________
FROG BLAST THE VENT CORE!
Do not mess with the NPSRMRNPPMASZoPawKaBfoG
[01:21] Somagu21: Jacques Flambè
[01:22] guardsheep2000: also known as the greatest firework known to man
I am not under crack. ~~Blob

[Atomic]

This (and my own weapon-group discussion topic) are two that I dont mind seeing revived, except when it's as somagu said some dumbass saying "Haha!"
_________________
"Also, I'm the only person I know capable of a pelvic pary and riposte." -- Squashmonster

I moderate in red.

[Somagu]

What? I didn't quite catch that... Even though I read it 3 times....

[edit] Oh, nevermind, yeah, I know, I shouldn't respond to resurrections.... But feh.... *goes back to corner and sits while staring at wall*
_________________
FROG BLAST THE VENT CORE!
Do not mess with the NPSRMRNPPMASZoPawKaBfoG
[01:21] Somagu21: Jacques Flambè
[01:22] guardsheep2000: also known as the greatest firework known to man
I am not under crack. ~~Blob

[Atomic]

what? Huh? No? Respond? This is a good topic. I like it. And I like the revival. I was agreeing with you. Put the cocaine away man.
_________________
"Also, I'm the only person I know capable of a pelvic pary and riposte." -- Squashmonster

I moderate in red.

[Somagu]

Oh.... *shifty eyes and puts a small bag away* Right.... Uh... I'mma play some more IVaN now..
_________________
FROG BLAST THE VENT CORE!
Do not mess with the NPSRMRNPPMASZoPawKaBfoG
[01:21] Somagu21: Jacques Flambè
[01:22] guardsheep2000: also known as the greatest firework known to man
I am not under crack. ~~Blob