ivanforum

[Z]

Adamant is better than valpurium? I thought that valpurium is better.

Justifier gives you additional bonuses, IIRC ESP, Haste, Polycontrol and Telecontrol. Haste means +25% speed IIRC, which is +25% damage.

Moreover, with limited access to SoEW I think it would be better to try to improve the Justifier than enchant a normal weapon to +16. Staff of wondrous apparently needs +9 to be on par with Justifier, but is more annoying and less accurate. But Turox might be an option.
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[Slob]

Thanks for posting that usefull information.

You also have to take into consideration the THV, and APC(speed) you'll find that valpurium is superior to adamant in these metrics.

The only way to figure out what is the best for sure is to code dive and and then figure out the average damage you are likely to do taking into account that misses do zero damage. A valpurium turox might do more damage on average than an adamant one if it misses less.

[Mort]

Did you test how much AStr it takes to wield these things? You won't be able to wield an adamant staff without artificial limbs.

[Slob]

Actually you didn't read my post closely, I said valpurium might deal more average damage, i.e. 10 swings with a valpurium turox hitting 9 times for 30 damage is an average of 27, wherease 10 swings of a adamant turox hitting 8 times for 33 damage (more per hit) is and average of 26.4. I was not contesting the validity of anything you said, merely adding to it by pointing out that single hit damage is not what counts but rather average damage.

Also you started your post by talking about the justifier not being "the best" weapon. So you brought in the idea of finding the best weapon. Read your own post more clearly dude.

[Atomic]

That doesn't make sense, in most cases, that Adamant would be more damaging than Valpurium. I have a list of every material and all stats on them. According to it:

[SquashMonster]

Weight is a large factor in all damage calculations. You do more damage with an adamantine dagger than you do with a valpurium one. Valpurium weapons are all faster and more resistant to damage, but usually lose by a very small margin in raw damage because valpurium is less than a third as dense.

It makes sense. If I stab you with two identacle weapons, one of lead and one of aluminum, the lead one will do more damage, even though lead is soft and aluminum is fairly strong.
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"Im angered that everyone is following my trend of quoting people. I should make that punishable" ~ unknown_entity

[Atomic]

Hmm... it still doesn't make sense, at least as far as daggers, short swords and spears are concerned... I would think extra weight, especially with those, would make it more difficult to land an effective blow...
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"Also, I'm the only person I know capable of a pelvic pary and riposte." -- Squashmonster

I moderate in red.

[Elohssa]

I'm going for a shotgun pattern here, and I'm sorry as I'm gonna get, but I really do want some reactions:

True or explain?

The best weapon combination is by definition the one that frees up ringcloak slots for the all-important tele-control, poly control, fire res, invisibility, infravision, etc that are all critical to have at all times (because you only need to get caught slipping once). Therefore, the best generally available weapon combo is Vermis and Saal'thu, regardless of material or accuracy, or anything else, because it frees up 3 slots. Thankfully, they are effective weapons, but if they were banana peel whips with -15 enchantments, and actually healed monsters when you hit, I'd still try to work with them.

How do you fellas managed without them? Because I would love to try some other weapon groups, but I can't justify giving up permanent telecontrol and invisibility, as well as teleportitis. I recently got Seerc for the first time, but I couldn't single-hand it for lack of arm strength (32 is higher than I've ever hand, though I've made the high 20's). Seerc and Vermis might be acceptable, but without Vermis, how do I get poly and telecontrol, as well as fire resistance and invisibility. Telportitis is also a godsend, for those games where wands don't grow on trees.

How do you get past this limitation? Do you do without invisibility or something? Is there some trick I'm missing? I've tried using mystic dark frogs ( a little), but they're too fragile. The gods and fountains aren't reliable enough, there aren't enough blink dogs around, bitch, bitch, bitch.

Moan.
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Shaw's Principle: Build a system even a fool could use, and only a fool would want to use it.

[Atomic]

Invisibility? I rarely use invisibility, and it rarely bothers me. If you really need it though, get friendly with Cleptia. Teleportitis? You can buy scrolls in Attnam usually, though they are slow, but wands of teleportation are pretty damn common. Telecontrol? Blink dogs. You don't really need it constant until fairly late in the dungeon, which gives plenty of time for the dogs to spawn. Fire resistance should ALWAYS be from a cloak, if you can. Infravision is not nessasary -- there are only a couple invisible monsters, and they can also be detected via ESP. Poly control... you can usually tell when you're about to poly (just ate a rabbit or some such) and just toss the ring on then. Haste you can get from Cleptia (or wands).

It is quite possible to work around not having access to any of these. Flexibility in your playing style is pretty much a must in IVAN. You need to learn to survive when you DON'T have everything you need. Unlike games like ADOM, you can't just chill around mangling monsters hoping for one of them to drop something cool -- the only monsters that really carry good stuff are named, and only show up once.
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"Also, I'm the only person I know capable of a pelvic pary and riposte." -- Squashmonster

I moderate in red.

[Atomic]

I'd just like to make a quick correction. According to the IVAN script files:

neercseulb /* meleeweapon-> */
{
StrengthModifier = 200;
FormModifier = 250;
DefaultSize = 100;
Possibility = 0;
CanBeWished = false;
BitmapPos = 0, 32;
WeaponCategory = BLUNT_WEAPONS;
IsMaterialChangeable = false;
DefaultMainVolume = 500;
DefaultSecondaryVolume = 500;
Adjective = "ancient";
NameSingular = "mace";
UsesLongAdjectiveArticle = true;
PostFix = "named Neerc Se-ulb";
ArticleMode = FORCE_THE;
MainMaterialConfig == MITHRIL;
SecondaryMaterialConfig == MITHRIL;
IsPolymorphable = false;
Alias == "Neerc Se-ulb";
Roundness = 35;
IsTwoHanded = true;
CanBeCloned = false;
CanBeMirrored = true;
CanBeBroken = false;
BaseEnchantment = 6;
AttachedGod = MORTIFER;
WieldedBitmapPos = 160, 192;
IsQuestItem = true;
}

What this basically means is, the weapon is mithril, cannot be cloned or broken, has a boosted ASTR requirement for single handed use, and weights a crapload. Mostly I brought this up for the mithril part; you thought it was meteoric steel.

On a side note Neerc se'Ulb is a freaking awesome weapon. I have a new favorite.
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"Also, I'm the only person I know capable of a pelvic pary and riposte." -- Squashmonster

I moderate in red.

[Atomic]

The reason Neerc weighs so freaking much is because of the volume. For referance, a normal mace:

[chaostrom]

UPDATE: valpurium whips deal more damage than golden eagle feather whips, although less accurate without enchantments. I'll do some more testing soon.

Thanks to qalnor2 for this info.

[chaostrom]

Right. After some testing, I have established the top 3 most damaging materials for whips.

1. pepsi
2. valpurium
3. golden eagle feather

If you're playing legit, then it is as follows:

1. valpurium
2. golden eagle feather
3. spider silk

although valpurium whips deal more damage, they are less accurate as well (without enchantments). Therefore, I suggest spider silk, until you have the INT requirements for golden eagle feather. I don't recommend valpurium whips unless you have SoEW aplenty. It only deals 1 more damage than golden eagle feather, and is less accurate (without enchantments).

Suprisingly, octiron whips are fairly accurate, with adamant and dragon hide doing equal damage (but poor accuracy). Phoenix feather isn't too bad, either.